In Which I Rant About 4-Way Stops

"LemonsEngineer" (cegan09) 10/06/2015 at 10:12 • Filed to: None

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I don’t know what happened in the last couple years, but it seems everyone around my town has come down with a serious case of the dumb and can no longer muster the mental capacity to use a 4-way stop. I thought this was easy. If you get there first, you go first. Apparently this is no longer true and the order in which you go is based on some convoluted rule set written and set into law without my knowledge based on some mixture of what car you drive and the precise angle of the sun. Since I do not posses tools in my car to measure the sun’s angle lately I’ve resorted to just getting angry.

This has been happening more and more. I will pull up to a stop sign, where another car is already at a full stop to either my right or left. I then watch this person as they have the right of way and I’m expecting them to go. Except that this person has taken this exact moment to do their best deer impression and just freezes. After what feels like long enough for me to walk over to their car, open the door, slap them, and push the gas myself, they finally raise their hand and wave me through. WHAT?!

For a short while I would refuse, and force them to follow the rules that say the first car stopped goes first. But that got tiresome. So now I just floor it and angry stare as I go past. I’m sure they have no idea I’m doing this. I realize that some people are trying to be nice, but this is not a social situation that requires you to be nice. Nobody gets angry because you went on your turn at a stop.

Heaven forbid if I ever meet one of these eggplants with extremities at the 3-way stop I have to navigate to leave my neighborhood. The road out has no stop because it’s on a hill and in the winter most people would get stuck because they bought into the whole “all season tires are miracle devices that work everywhere” BS. However all three other directions have a stop, and are properly labeled with “3-Way Stop”. So leaving my neighborhood each morning consists of slowing down, checking each direction, making eye contact with the same car I’ve done this with 3 times this week, and then either locking up my brakes or flooring it as they start to ease into the intersection just as I’m coming into it.

Everyone always complains about rotaries because they’re just “so hard to figure out”, and laments that we should replace them with 4-way stops. But how will that be better when apparently the average person can’t even figure out who has the right of way at one of those?

Maybe self driving cars really will help. At least then I can just place all blame on that one mystical programmer that lives “there” and clearly wrote the entirety of the code controlling that car.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 10:17

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I feel ya. There’s a one way road I travel down that intersects with another one way road that I use to come home. The eastward one way has to stop, the northbound one way has yellow flashing lights. I once physically got out the car and calmly explained to the person who stopped that they were going to cause an accident by being “nice”. I can wait. That’s how these roads are designed.

Flavien Vidal > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 10:20

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In France we deal with it with “priorite a droite”.

The car on the right gets the priority... Unless all 4 cars arrive together at the exact same time, it works very well... Nobody on your right? you go! Easy.

TheHondaBro > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 10:21

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I’ve had the same problem with roundabouts. In California, there were two of them I went through regularly. I’d be in the roundabout and some joker coming up to it thinks its their rigt of way. Trust me, idiots can’t get roundabouts either.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 10:23

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This happens all the damn time to me. I’ll come to one of the two 3-way stops on my way to school and there will be a car there stopped already. Then they sit there for 5 seconds because I guess they assume because I drive a BMW I’ll just roll through the stop anyway? I dunno. But after I get annoyed and start to go, they’ll start to go. Then we both stop then I finally say fuck it and take off at full throttle. It’s an endless cycle that happens every day to the point where if they don’t go within three seconds, I’m going.

Urambo Tauro > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 10:25

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TractorPillow > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 10:26

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You are just confused about what stop signs now mean to the average person. Stop signs now mean “take a break from driving and check your phone!”

Sam > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 10:27

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I encounter tons of people that seem to think 4 way stops require right of way to a person who has been in line the longest. The person in front of them will go, and then they’ll follow them through.

Alfalfa > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 10:28

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2 way stops is where this is a problem in my neighborhood. One specific intersection, people stopped seem to think that “left turn yield” is the rule. The fun part here is that the crossroad doesn’t stop, so you have no idea what the oncoming car is going to do in the window of no traffic.

spanfucker retire bitch > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 10:29

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I hate going through 4-way stops for precisely the same reason. I can’t fucking predict anymore how the other drivers are going to react. Half of them just wave me on when it’s clearly their turn to go, while the other half do their level best to T-Bone me, or be T-Boned by me because apparently stopping is for losers.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > TheHondaBro 10/06/2015 at 10:30

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Idiots don't get anything, therefore the rules shouldn't be designed with idiots in mind. Just let the rules suit normal people, and let the idiots exterminate themselves.

spanfucker retire bitch > Flavien Vidal 10/06/2015 at 10:30

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We have have this in the U.S. as well, or at least in NYS as it even said as much on the test that I took to get my permit.

The issue isn’t that such practices don’t exist. The issue is that nobody either cares or knows about them.

Justin Hughes > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 10:32

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Four way stops are easily solved here in Massachusetts. Everyone has the right of way, at all times, and screw the other guy.

They’re still better that rotaries, though. At least at stop signs, everyone’s required to stop. Rotaries, you have one law saying that the person already in the intersection has the right of way, and another law saying that the car on the right has the right of way, so it’s unclear who has the rightest way of all and everyone just goes anyway.

Cé hé sin > Flavien Vidal 10/06/2015 at 10:34

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There was a time, at least in some places, where priorité à droite meant giving was to someone coming ONTO a roundabout, something which gave me quite a fright the first and only time I encountered it.

Urambo Tauro > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 10:34

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Last week I had to cross a busy road (two-way stop), but the driver opposite me had stopped first, indicting a left turn across my path. A coupe of openings came and went, without the driver budging. Cars were waiting in line behind both of us.

Another, larger opening came, and the driver waved me through. I had been sitting there for more than half a song (about two or three minutes), and my patience had withered away beyond the point of playing any hesitant “ no, you go ” games.

Cé hé sin > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 10:36

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...is relieved to live somewhere we very rarely see these

LemonsEngineer > Flavien Vidal 10/06/2015 at 10:36

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We have the same laws. First person to the stop goes first. If you get there at the same time the person to your right goes first. But since we teach driver’s ed with the same caring as we do learning to make a BP&J sandwich, no one ever knows or cares.

Jcarr > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 10:37

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I work in a little town about 15 miles from home and right now the only normal way out of town is closed due to construction. Now to get out of town I must navigate a 4-way blinking red at the intersection of the main 4-lane and a sidestreet. It is chaotic every day at rush hour.

LemonsEngineer > Justin Hughes 10/06/2015 at 10:37

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I learned to drive in MA. The insanity of the north east is real.

Smoggi - powered by 3 cylinders > TheHondaBro 10/06/2015 at 10:38

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Not sure about the excact rules for this in California but in Germany if there is no yield-sign at the entrance of the roundabout the person entering has the right of way. But most roundabouts here have them.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > spanfucker retire bitch 10/06/2015 at 10:40

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4-way stops suck. Make them roundabouts already.

If you end up in a second-guessing race to a low speed impact though, my favorite approach is to scare them. Rug it and leave a large portion of your tires in front of them, they will get out of the way.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Justin Hughes 10/06/2015 at 10:43

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ROUNDABOUTS are better than 4-way stops. The end.

Side note: are US laws on roundabouts really so conflicting? Here, afaik, those in the roundabout always have the right of way.

Justin Hughes > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 10/06/2015 at 10:44

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Technically, US laws are the same as yours. In practice, nobody cares or yields.

450X_FTW > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 10:46

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For the win

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Justin Hughes 10/06/2015 at 10:48

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Largely, yes, but we tend to have less federal/provincial conflict, partly because you call them states :), partly because there are less of them, and partly because provinces don't have quite so much control over their own affairs, whereas your states are largely left to their own devices.

Justin Hughes > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 10/06/2015 at 11:05

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I completely understand. My fiancee is from Montreal. :)

CalzoneGolem > Justin Hughes 10/06/2015 at 11:08

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MA has some fucked up rotaries. There’s one in downtown Salem by the commuter rail that defies all logic and gives the people outside the right of way.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 11:08

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I don’t mind it so much at the 4-way stops. At least the other guy stopping is acceptable. I mind it MUCH more at 2-way stops (other way does not have a sign at all). So you pull up to your stop sign and stop. At the same time, there is cross traffic that pulls to the intersection to make a left and they stop, and then try to wave you across. This is some infuriating BS!! I generally see this at those “blinky light stops” where there is a yellow flashing in their direction and red flashing for the stop sign, but it should still be treated as a normal 2-way.

Justin Hughes > CalzoneGolem 10/06/2015 at 11:09

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Could be worse.

Good old Kelley Square, Worcester.

CalzoneGolem > Justin Hughes 10/06/2015 at 11:12

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Yeah, this and 128 sum up MA driving

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > 450X_FTW 10/06/2015 at 11:17

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All the way. Well, no, not all the way. These are better, where the road is wide enough.

450X_FTW > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 10/06/2015 at 11:19

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Those are much easier when towing a trailer too

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > 450X_FTW 10/06/2015 at 11:21

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And they allow the roads to sustain higher speeds. They are basically stretched roandabouts.

RazoE > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 11:23

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If 4 people get there at the same time, then everyone has someone to the right.

Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 11:31

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See, in Hell Paso, we have a completely OPPOSITE reinterpretation of the four-way stop rules. Most people come to a complete stop, and then feel that the accomplishment of doing so rewards them automatic right-of-way, regardless of WHEN they came to a complete stop in relation to the others at the intersection.

If I had a dollar for every time I’ve yelled, “It wasn’t your turn, jackpipe!” at a four-way in EP, I could retire comfortably on the interest alone.

shop-teacher > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 11:33

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I will give that person two beats. If they’re still not going, I go. I ain’t got no time for that!!!

shop-teacher > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 10/06/2015 at 11:35

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I recently went back to the area I grew up in, and found a roundabout in place of a 4-way stop sign that was a total nightmare (way too much traffic volume, it was always stupidly backed up). Oh.My.Gawd!! It is sooooooo much better!!!!!

shop-teacher > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 10/06/2015 at 11:36

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Well put.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > shop-teacher 10/06/2015 at 11:38

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Thanks :)

jariten1781 > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 11:40

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Meh, don’t mind the situation you’re talking about. I pull up and stop. Head check the other three entries and if no one else starts moving I go. It's not unusual for me to be the last to arrive and first to go when everyone else is competing to see who can be most polite.

I do mind the two and three way stops without the clearly marked ‘cross traffic does not stop’ supplementary sign. We've got a couple in my neighborhood and there's a wreck every week or so because some yahoo thought they were at an all-way stop.

LemonsEngineer > RazoE 10/06/2015 at 11:43

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how often do you ever see that happen?

RazoE > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 11:52

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Busy streets.

uofime-2 > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 11:54

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People where I am cannot even handle a 2 way, they seem to have decided that it matters if either party is turning or not. Apparently in their minds if the other person arrives second but is going straight through they have right of way.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 11:54

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This is a very real struggle

People are very, very stupid.

Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 12:08

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I too have a high disdain for four way stops. In fact, I think they’re probably the worst type of traffic intersection I’ve encountered. Being in NJ, we have (or had) plenty of circles, and they don’t bug me at all. However, these is a caveat to that. Some circles give the people in the circle the right of way, while others give the people on the outside the right of way (which I always found really fucking stupid). There’s two circles in particular that I travel fairly frequently within 100 yards of one another, and one has the traffic in the circle having the right away, and the other has the exterior traffic with the right away. It’s a wonder there’s not more accidents there.

Anyway, getting back to 4-way stops, people just don’t seem to get it. I remember driver’s ed saying something to the effect that if both drivers got to the sign at the same time, the person on the right should go. But does anyone remember that shit? Nope. Oh, another thing that annoys me is when you have some douchenozzle who doesn’t want to wait his turn and will go right after the car in his lane already went. Often times if it’s my turn I’ll just go anyway. Most often times they’ll stop if their head isn’t completely up their ass.

wiffleballtony > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 12:15

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Butter Peanut and Jelly? Now I’m confused.

wiffleballtony > Justin Hughes 10/06/2015 at 12:18

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Rotaries are amazing, your drivers are clearly more incompetent. We have two at our freeway entrance where I live. Makes everything so much easier. Also it’s pretty hard to have a head on collision.

LemonsEngineer > wiffleballtony 10/06/2015 at 13:20

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Was trying to find an accurate comparison for how seriously we take driver education these days. And I think the level of effort is the same as required to make a sandwich.

Probenja > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 13:30

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These are much more fun than 4 way stops imo:

wiffleballtony > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 13:37

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A good sandwich or an average sandwich?

Ryanator122 > RazoE 10/06/2015 at 13:47

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You know the first license test in every Gran Turismo ever? When you notice you’re all 4 going to arrive at once, it turns into that. Speed up a bit, and make sure you come to a stop first. Then, the 3 of them can kinda try to figure out the right-of-way thing

crown victor victoria > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 13:47

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As you pointed out, many drivers treat a 4-way stop as a stressful mechanical puzzle that cannot be solved, so I would say this effectively happens all of the time.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > spanfucker retire bitch 10/06/2015 at 14:54

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That’s how the taught us in NY. Some places are better than others where I am.

Whatevs > LemonsEngineer 10/06/2015 at 20:39

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Directions unclear...dick stuck in cigarette lighter.

bmw325_num99 > LemonsEngineer 10/15/2015 at 15:14

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Problem solved!!